Episode 8: Popsicle Designs and Messy Veggies – Jaime and Simon Hall

Episode Description: This episode explores what digital marketing is and its roles. The stories range from understanding what the audience wants and how to get 100,000 likes to learning how to market to your audience and strategizing to succeed in your passion projects.

 

Bio:

Hello everybody, this episode is with Jaime and Simon Hall from Popsicle Designs, a digital marketing agency. It covers a lot of ground, so get your pens ready because we talk digital marketing strategy, making big life decisions, knowing when and how to pivot, how to get 100k video views on Facebook, and so much more. If you don’t have pens, don’t worry, question markers are always in the show notes. At the beginning of the episode, it kinda sounds like I’m ignoring Jaime. But I really just wanted to dig in Simon’s mindset around quitting his secure job in finance and becoming an entrepreneur. Sometimes it’s really hard to take a leap of faith and I have a lot of respect for people who do and follow that voice inside of them. It’s a lot easier said than done sometimes. So these 2 are very very dear friends of mine and this episode is a lot of fun. It was so fun to record, but it’s also really fun to listen to and we all have a lot of great synergy. So I hope you enjoy.

 

Resources:

Messy Veggies – http://messyveggies.com/

Popsicle Designs Digital Marketing – http://www.popsicledesigns.com.au/

 

Episode Notes:

  • Welcome to the Show – 2:05
  • What is Popsicle? – 2:26
  • How did you decide to leave the financial service industry? – 3:20
  • Starting the side hustle – 5:05
  • Was it easy making the transition? – 5:41
  • Messy Veggies – 7:40
  • How long does it take to make a video? – 12:12
  • Time comparison with magazine and video – 13:57
  • Are you still doing Instagram? – 15:49
  • How do you get 100k likes, shares, views? – 16:06
  • Is there a formula in videos that gets these likes? – 17:21
  • How do you know what to capture? – 18:34
  • What is your posting strategy? – 24:15
  • Any other platforms? – 27:02
  • How far ahead do you plan posts, the strategy, and sharing? – 28:56
  • How do you what your audience shares? – 32:56
  • Instagram will become the one-click ordering stop – 35:44
  • A ban on Australians buying from Amazon.com – 37:00
  • An opportunity to grow businesses online in Australia – 38:08
  • Current major pain points, including monetization – 39:15
  • Competing in the digital market and a recommendation – 40:09
  • Teamwork – 41:35
  • Coming up with an ad strategy – 44:15
  • How do you get to know your clients? -45:03
  • Last closing thoughts: vlogging, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram stories and an embarrassing photo exposure moment – 49:53
  • Closing – 56:24

Tiffany: Hi guys, and welcome to the ”Posh Incredible Transformations.”

 

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

 

Simon: Intro.

 

Tiffany: Intro music. I’m Tiffany Lopez and you’re listening to Posh Incredible podcast where I interview ordinary people who are making extraordinary transformations in their lives and for others. I believe we’re all here to transcend and assist the ones around us to grow into the people they were born to be. The pathway of awakening is a noble life pursuit and it starts now.

 

Hello everybody. This episode is with Jamie and Simon hall from Popsicle Designs, a digital marketing agency. It covers a lot of ground, so get your pens ready because we talk digital marketing strategy, making big life decisions, knowing how and when to pivot, how to get 100,000 video views on Facebook and so much more. If you don’t have pens, don’t worry, question markers are always in the show notes.

 

In the beginning of the episode it kind of sounds like I’m ignoring Jamie, but I really just wanted to dig into Simon’s mindset around quitting his secure job in finance and becoming an entrepreneur. Sometimes, it’s really hard to take a leap of faith and I have a lot of respect for people who do and follow that voice inside of them. And it’s a lot easier said than done sometimes. So these two are very, very dear friends of mine and this episode is a lot of fun. It was so fun to record, but it’s also really fun to listen to and we all have a lot of great synergy. So I hope you enjoy.

 

Perfect. Okay, so I’m so, so excited, you guys. Welcome to the show. I’m really excited to have you. I’ve been wanting to interview you for so long. I love what you do and I love that we can work together. So yeah, go ahead.

 

Simon: Thank you. We love what you do too.

 

Tiffany: Perfect. So what is Popsicle? So I’m gonna ask you like what is Popsicle and like what other projects you’re working on. Go ahead.

 

Jamie: Popsicle Designs is a digital marketing agency. We do everything from website design, SEO, graphic design, video, Facebook marketing.

 

Simon: Facebook marketing, Google AdWords.

 

Jamie: It’s too many things to remember.

 

Simon: That’s a lot of stuff. Digital marketing is like…

 

Jamie: Digital marketing slaves. We started it because myself and our other business partner, Tim, had had other businesses before and we know how hard it is for people to get good service these days, and people who don’t try and just talk jargon with you and mess you around and don’t get shit done.

 

Tiffany: So, Simon, you were in the financial services industry before, how did you both decide to go…and also Tim, your business partner who isn’t here, but how did you decide to like go on this venture together and leave the financial services industry? And you were already an entrepreneur, right? Or, yeah.

 

Simon: Yeah. It’s interesting because I studied marketing at uni and then moved away from that into financial services. So I started, would have been almost 10 years ago, as a paraplanner and then moving into financial advice and getting into high net worth financial advice for people. And I always loved what marketing was and how we could do it for the businesses. So for every business that I used to work for, I was giving them the ideas for what we should be doing with our marketing, to the point where my last job, I wrote the whole marketing plan for them before I left, and what they should be doing. Then we had sort of a big life event with Jamie and it helped us to reassess what we were doing and where we were going. And I decided it was the right time for us to venture out and start something new.

 

Tiffany: So that was about like a year ago, right? A little bit over a year ago.

 

Simon: Yeah.

 

Tiffany: And that was what caused the transition. Can we say what happened?

 

Simon: Yeah, [inaudible 00:05:05]. Yeah.

 

Jamie: It was January last year that Tim and I started the business, but as a side hustle. And I was working part time, at the time. And then in March, early March, I found out after a couple of stages that I had a brain tumor and then had surgery and I ended up quitting work. And then, I guess, Simon decided that he wanted to, you know, firstly be there for me, but also join the business. Yeah, and we just went full time from there.

 

Tiffany: So was it pretty easy to make that transition for you, Simon? Like was it a no brainer or was it like kind of hard to leave. Because sometimes it’s hard to leave like security, right?

 

Simon: That is a great pun. It was kind of a no brainer in a sense that I assess risk, you know, and I always assessed risk in my previous role. And I kind of looked at it as the very worst thing that could happen would be that we failed and I would just go back to giving financial advice again. And that is not the worst thing in the world. So I wanted to spend more time with Jamie and that was the biggest catalyst for what we were doing but I also did not like working for people. Because we kind of…when you have great ideas or when you think you have great ideas and you wanna implement something that you know will be in the best interest of the businesses that you’re working for and you come up against red tape or, you know, just people not on the same path that you think they should be going on, just because of difference of opinion or, you know, maybe you’re not as high up as what you think you are. I just…yeah, we just wanted to get rid of that and be able to give businesses the tools that they needed to get where they wanted to go.

 

Tiffany: Because that’s what you wanted to do. You wanted to be able to take a business to where you thought its highest potential was, but you didn’t have the control to do it?

 

Simon: Exactly.

 

Tiffany: Okay. Because that’s what I heard when you were talking. Interesting. That is so cool. Also, something else happened like around the same time, you guys started a new project even though you were working on a new project already. What was that?

 

Simon: So I think you’re talking about Messy Veggies. So Messy Veggies started…

 

Jamie: It started before that, but just as like a hobby thing. And would just…

 

Tiffany: What did it start as? Like what…?

 

Jamie: Just on Instagram.

 

Tiffany: Okay. So on Instagram, Messy…

 

Jamie: Just posting pictures of food that we were eating and making.

 

Tiffany: Okay. Okay. And then how did it evolve?

 

Simon: Yeah. So…

 

Tiffany: And why did it evolve?

 

Simon: That’s very interesting. It kind of evolved because we saw that there was… So Messy Veggies is now a vegan media company. It was just a sort of personal blog but we never really wanted it to be about us. I said this from the very beginning, even when we were just taking photos of the food that we were eating, I wanted it to be behind a brand because if we ever scaled, then it wouldn’t be centered around us. Because I feel like there’s only so much scaling you can do when it’s a personal brand. That is very incorrect for some very amazing people who have their own personal brand. But I guess I’m not a very public person, so I never wanted it to be about us. But yeah, so it started as just us sort of capturing everything that we were doing. And then we moved into video.

 

Jamie: Well, people were asking for the recipes and it’s hard to do under individual Instagram posts. So we eventually built a website which kind of grew and grew, and then we started talking to more people and interviewing. And then Simon had this cool idea of starting a magazine. We did three editions, which were really amazing. We spoke to some really awesome people. But it’s a lot of hard work, especially when we’re running another business. So we just…

 

Tiffany: It’s hard enough to start one thing, like one new thing, and then you have this whole other like baby. It’s like having Irish twins. You’re trying to grow two different things at the same time. That is super difficult. Go ahead. Sorry, that just popped into my head. You’re talking about the magazine and it was a lot of work and…

 

Jamie: People loved it and then…

 

Tiffany: It was really beautiful. Does it not exist anymore?

 

Simon: No. So here’s the thing. And because of my background in financial services, I love data and it’s pretty much the key to everything that happens these days, purely because we can collect enough of it. And it really should be what we focus on. So we looked at the data and how many people were actually reading the magazine that we were putting out, how many people were clicking on the links that we embedded into the document that we put out. And for the amount of work that went into the magazine compared to the download rate and clickthrough rate, it wasn’t worthwhile for us to keep doing that.

 

So we thought that we should just try and video things or use video as the medium for us to do it. And it kind of in two parts of why we started that. We knew that video was the future and it still is. It’s actually now, but it’s definitely the future and we wanted to be a part of that, but we weren’t sure how it would work with what we were doing. But there’s enough data you can collect from video that is a lot better than just writing a story. We can track how far people get through the story that we’re telling on a video, whereas it’s a little bit harder to do that with a blog post.

 

Tiffany: Interesting. I love that. So how long does it take you to do a video?

 

Simon: That’s another good question. So it depends because a lot of the videos that we’re doing at the moment is because of the audience that we are making it for. We know that they love food so we’re trying to bring them the best food that Melbourne has to offer. And because of that we have to travel to all these places to film the food that’s being created.

 

Tiffany: You like document. You like, you go there, you document, you interview, you like taste the food, you take pictures of it, you create a video of it. Like, it’s a lot of work.

 

Jamie: Yeah. So we have a vegan directory and map on our website. Yeah, there is the time spent contacting all the venues, scheduling it, driving. Sometimes it’s like an hour of just drive, and then spending at least an hour with them videoing, you know, like in the kitchen, all the different dishes, talking to them and interviewing them and asking their journeys. And then, after that, writing about it. And I guess the video editing takes a couple of hours.

 

Simon: Yeah. Calibrating. There’s all sorts of stuff that’s involved. There’s music that we have to put to the videos. There’s… There’s just a lot involved with that. And we’re doing almost two videos a week at the moment, which takes up a lot of our time. But it’s a passion project for us that we see what the potential is for the future.

 

Tiffany: So, but question, just comparison. So how long did it take you to do the magazine and how long is it taking you to do the videos?

 

Simon: I would say that they’re probably about the same in terms of time, but we…

 

Jamie: But when we were doing the magazine, classic, we’d leave most of the editing and putting it all together for like the last week. So we’d be hurrying[SP] for like a week or two and not doing any of our other work because we were trying to get this magazine out by a deadline. So this is kind of a bit more easy to incorporate or integrate into our lives.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. Like fits in, it flows more. What’s interesting about.. The reason why I brought up the time comparison is because you can, yeah, you can collect data and you can see the results from the videos that you do, but it also seems like it’s more fun for you. So it’s like because it’s more fun, you kind of like gravitated towards doing the videos because you just like enjoyed it more. That’s like kind of what I’m getting from you guys. Like it’s more free flowing. It doesn’t feel like work.

 

Simon: Yeah. We feel more creative when we’re doing it. Plus, in a very simple comparison, we had…the magazine would be downloaded maybe a thousand times for each edition and one video that we did has hit over 100,000 people. So the comparison is night and day to what’s actually happening.

 

Tiffany: This is an amazing segue into my next question.

 

Jamie: You’re welcome.

 

Tiffany: Before I ask my next question, I’m gonna ask a pre-question, are you guys still doing Instagram?

 

Jamie: Yes. Yes. We post every day. We don’t post our videos on there, on like the timeline, though. We will post them in the stories. But yeah, it’s still an important part of what we do.

 

Tiffany: So how do you get 100,000 shares or likes or whatever, interactions? How do you do that?

 

Simon: You have to have something that people want. That is the only way.

 

Jamie: So that’s on Facebook. And I guess, yeah, we’ve built up a really good community audience that really love what we’re doing and wanna know all the new places and they tag all their friends and they share it and then those other people share it. So, yeah.

 

Simon: That was when we had 2,000 followers on Facebook. So we only had a very small audience that were actually connected and are organic. That’s 100,000 organic views that we caught on that video.

 

Tiffany: Is there like a formula breakdown, besides doing something that you love? Because one, like the video is fun and you like it, so you’re injecting like that energy into it. But also, you’re giving people what they want, which is like you guys go to like the newest, like best restaurants and so you’re sharing information. But you’re also like telling…sort of like telling a story. So is there like a formula in your video that is able to communicate to your audience that makes them wanna share? And what does that look like?

 

Simon: Yes. Yes. We’re still fine…we’re sort of still fine-tuning what that recipe looks like. But for use of, not a better word, with recipe, but yes, there is a certain…we know what we need to capture every time we go somewhere. It’s the story that changes each time we go somewhere. But we’ve found that if it’s new, it does really well. Or if it’s something that’s not as well-known as…or someone’s introducing something new that people don’t know about. Because the vegan community in Melbourne is very tight-knit. Everyone shares a lot of the information, it’s just not done in a video format. So we saw that as an opportunity to deliver information at a better medium. And we know how highly shareable they are because people wanna tell other people about new things. Yeah.

 

Tiffany: So one of my favorite things about working with you guys is like you’re fun and you like to do the things that you like to do, but you also do it with a…how do I say it? It’s very intentional. That’s what I’ve learned about you guys. It’s not just like, “Oh well, let’s just see how this goes.” Like you kind of have…you do have your formula. It’s not necessarily a formula, but it’s like a strategy. So what do you go into looking for? Like what kinds of things do you need to capture, that you know that you need to capture, and how did you find those out?

 

Jamie: We do have kind of a checklist [inaudible 00:19:13] going to a place. So just in terms of the places that we go to, it needs to be either an all-vegan restaurant, have a separate vegan menu or some really amazing and notable options. And then, once we go there, we ask them to show at least four different dishes. Sometimes they’ll give us a lot more, which is amazing but scary because then we have to eat it. But yeah, I think just showing a good variety.

 

Simon: Colors, people love colors. People love carbs. They like bread. We know that. People like pasta. So we know things on a menu that people are always attracted to. So when we go somewhere, we want them to show us those particular dishes.

 

Tiffany: Interesting. Okay.

 

Simon: Yeah. And it’s usually things that have wheat in it. I’m finding out more and more, which is great for me being celiac. But it just means Jamie gets to eat more of the food when we go places. But that is a big thing for people, they really like bread and pasta.

 

Tiffany: Comfort foods.

 

Simon: Yeah, absolutely, whole comfort foods. And they love watching that. Anything that oozes, anything that you pour something over, things like that, it’s like taking a dish to another level. When you add something to it, on your own while you’re sitting at a table, it gives you more interaction with your food. So we know people love that stuff too.

 

Jamie: And most people are vegan for the animals, not for their health so they just want the good stuff too. Like they’re not worried about if it’s fatty or whatever.

 

Tiffany: Right. And how did you make your initial list?

 

Jamie: Well, I went through…and we use something called Airtable.

 

Tiffany: Airtable?

 

Jamie: Yeah. We use a few different planning tools for different businesses. But yeah, Airtable for Messy Veggies. And we’ve got a big hit list and went through and added all of those, like I said, the fully vegan or vegan menus. And then just started…because I’m in a lot of groups, just started adding all the ones that the names were popping up a lot because I knew they were pretty popular. And we just kind of keep up because there’s a new place opening like every week.

 

Tiffany: For people who don’t know, like Melbourne is such a foodie city and there’s so much vegan food. Like just around this area… We’re in Fitzroy. Just around this area, there’s like heaps of vegan places. And there…you guys cover like new stuff and there’s obviously things popping up like all the time.

 

Simon: The problem with that is that there’s so much new stuff coming about and for us to cover, how do we tap into the old…the places that have been around for a long time, that are still there, but they need to be part of the directory that we’re putting together as well. So finding the time to do both is kind of where we’re, you know, where we’re kind of stuck. But we have writers that do that for us, as part of the team, which is growing all the time at the moment. Yeah, so it’s really good. But like there’s different strategies that we put in place for different things.

 

Tiffany: Give me an example.

 

Simon: We just had stickers printed that restaurants can put on their front windows to say that they’ve featured us in…or we’ve featured them in our directory. So it’s kinda like if you spot it, you know that there’s gonna be good vegan food at this location.

 

Tiffany: I love that.

 

Simon: So that was a big thing. That was Jamie’s idea. We’ve seen it from other companies that do that as well. But I think… Our branding is very clean as well and it goes with everything. It’s not…it’s very white and very clean. So I think it goes with most places and it’s not something that you would be uncomfortable having on your window.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. Looks good.

 

Simon: Yeah. Yeah. Which is a big thing. And that’s all Jamie.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. Jamie does the design. Jamie created our logo, Posh Inc.

 

Jamie: I hope you like it, everybody. If you don’t, don’t tell me. I’ll cry.

 

Tiffany: So what’s your posting strategy or what’s your… Because you guys are in digital marketing, it’s like almost not fair to also do Messy Veggies because you guys have like all of the knowledge that everybody wants. You’re… So what do you do? I know you get a lot of organic traffic, but what do you… Are you running ads? Are you doing sponsored video? I’m not like a digital marketing expert but…

 

Simon: That’s okay. Yes, we do a lot of…

 

Tiffany: Like what’s your plan? What’s your launch plan? You know.

 

Simon: So it’s kind of a work in progress always because our audience is expanding at a rapid pace. And do we resell to our audience or do we branch out and try and get new audience in? So at the moment we let our organic shares and views happen but… So for Messy Veggies, the biggest strategy that we have is the first day that our video is up. We need it to be shared as many times as possible in the first 12 to 24 hours because it’s a new place, because we want people commenting and telling other people about a new place. It loses its appeal after it’s been open for a few weeks. So we need the message to get out really quickly so that we become the place that people go to to look for new places.

 

Tiffany: Got it. Sounds like a Kickstarter campaign.

 

Simon: Yeah. So we run a Kickstarter campaign on every single thing that we run, even if it’s just $10 that we spend on ads for that video that we condense into a six to eight-hour time slot as soon as it’s shared, so that we get the most amount of people to look at it straight off the bat. And then we let them do the organic sharing for us after that. So we shut down the ad as soon as we’ve done that eight-hour period.

 

Tiffany: Oh, interesting.

 

Jamie: And also, not just on Facebook, but as a website kind of strategy, we make sure that the post that we’re doing is really optimized for SEO. And oftentimes, we’re ranking higher than the actual restaurant or cafe on Google. So if it’s a new place that’s really good, people are like looking it up, wanting to find out about everything, and we’re there at the top.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. That’s amazing. So what other platform? So you have your website, you have Instagram and you have Facebook. Are those your three main?

 

Jamie: They’re the three main ones. We do put all of our videos on YouTube, but yeah.

 

Tiffany: What is the YouTube for? Is that just to host like your videos…?

 

Simon: Yeah. Pretty much.

 

Tiffany: You’re not really like optimizing…

 

Simon: We’re not actively promoting YouTube, but we embed all our videos from YouTube on our website so that when the traffic comes through… So at the moment, all our traffic, we push from Facebook, pretty much. And we use Google URL shortener so that we can track how many people are clicking on the link that we place inside the video message. And then, once I land on that particular page where we’ve got the YouTube video again there, so that we get more watchers there as well. And it helps with our SEO anyway to rank higher if they’re coming from YouTube or if they can see that we’ve got a video there as well. We know that our YouTube videos actually rank well on search as well. So if there’s a…

 

Tiffany: Like a Google search?

 

Simon: Yeah. So when you do a Google search, you will see YouTube videos that sometimes come up in the search criteria, and we optimize our videos so that they rank well for that, and also the posts on our page.

 

Tiffany: Okay. Awesome. So would do you say the videos are the best thing that you do, that gives the most return on your investment in terms of time and…?

 

Jamie: Yeah, absolutely.

 

Tiffany: And you’re not just putting out videos, but the way that you put the videos out.

 

Jamie: Yeah, that’s right.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. How far out do you plan posts? So like you have videos, do you have a bunch of videos sitting that are like ready to be posted? Do you have like…?

 

Jamie: Yeah, we have quite a bit of a backlog.

 

Tiffany: And how do you post and like how do you figure out… What’s your like social…?

 

Jamie: So new places obviously get priority. And we do a thing called Fresh Food Friday. And so, normally we’ll post those on a Friday and then people get to know that, which is good. And the other ones we kind of like fit in around it. And we also have it…like if we’re really busy with the Popsicle work and we can’t go out to a place that week, then we can use one of the other videos that we’ve got.

 

Tiffany: Oh, awesome.

 

Simon: We just started a new series as well called Best Of, where we just…

 

Tiffany: I saw that. Tell me about it.

 

Simon: So we know that people like to share things and do lists of places. Like, how do I get to all these different places who do this really well? So we started this Best Of series. We just launched our first one yesterday, which is the best vegan burgers in Melbourne. And it’s really all about us going, “What is something that people want to share, you know, and how do we break that down?” And if you’re showcasing five different places that do great burgers, people can resonate with any of those different places. They’re scattered across Melbourne, they’re in all the different areas. Not that that’s strategic or anything, but we made sure that we covered off each different area with some of the great stuff that’s out there, and we know that that’s highly shareable.

 

So that was our strategy moving into this Best Of series, is that we know that we can get good organic shares from this. So then, that kind of translates into… Well, we’re doing a best of pizza next, so we need to get to all these different pizza places so that we can use them in our video, but also do another story on just that pizza place. So we kind of get two for one from these deals, so that we can have a catalog of certain meals that we film at different places. And we go into places with that in mind as well.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. I love the building on content, like being able to use something for multiple things. What’s your…? I love the way that you asked your question, what do people wanna share, and starting there. In answering that question, are you like, what have I shared recently? Or like how do you…?

 

Simon: No, I’m not our target audience. So it would be silly of me to think about what I would share because it’s not who our demographic is. So Jamie is more in our demographic. Our demographic is like 13 to 34 year-old females. That’s our demographic. It’s 80% of our market. And this comes back to when we run ads as well. Why would I run ads to guys where I’m paying four cents for a three second viewing and females in my target demographic, I’m paying one cent for…I’m paying four times as much for a view. So I don’t need them to be my audience. I just want my audience to be my audience, and how do I market better to that audience.

 

Tiffany: So do you look at what your audience shares then?

 

Simon: Yes.

 

Tiffany: Got it. And how do you know what your audience shares?

 

Simon: Research.

 

Tiffany: And like how was your research done? Is it manual?

 

Simon: A lot of it is.

 

Tiffany: You like go into, like, let’s say Sally’s like Facebook page and you see what she’s shared, like that kind of manual?

 

Simon: A little bit.

 

Tiffany: I’m sorry, I’m a creep. That’s something I would do.

 

Jamie: Probably more so in the groups. So I’m part of maybe five different vegan groups.

 

Simon: There’s hundreds of groups.

 

Jamie: Yeah, there’s hundreds of groups.

 

Tiffany: So you just see what people are sharing in those groups.

 

Jamie: Yeah.

 

Tiffany: That’s way easier than creeping on Sally’s personal Facebook page.

 

Jamie: Yeah, I know. Because most people are private, they’ve got that shit locked down. No, I’m just creeping in the groups.

 

Tiffany: Okay. Okay. Okay, awesome.

 

Simon: It’s not so creepy because, well, we just wanna give people what they want. For us to find out what people want more of, and for us to create that content that they want more, it’s just what they want. It’s us gathering information about what they want in a very pure form.

 

Tiffany: You guys aren’t creepy, I’m the creepy one. That’s what I was saying.

 

Jamie: We’ve noticed.

 

Tiffany: Oh, I heard. That was like one of the best selling pallets. Jamie just brought out the Urban Decay naked pallet and I’ve been getting more into like the beauty realm. And I’m talking to somebody who’s like a product… I can’t think of the word right now, but project manager or product manager for NARS. And she was showing me like all the different like beauty stuff. And she brought out the…

 

Jamie: What is it? The orgasm blush.

 

Tiffany: Probably.

 

Jamie: Because that’s like the best one.

 

Tiffany: She probably designed it, to be on it…like I’ll ask her. But yeah, she’s like this is like the bestselling palette of the world.

 

Simon: Jamie raves about it. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet, but maybe in the future.

 

Tiffany: Maybe tonight, night out on the town.

 

Simon: People often ask me whether I’ve got eyeliner on and I’m not sure why.

 

Tiffany: Really?

 

Simon: Yeah, I just have naturally dark eyes.

 

Tiffany: It doesn’t really look like you’re wearing eyeliner.

 

Simon: That’s good to know.

 

Tiffany: [inaudible 00:35:40] but that’s really cool. So I’ve been going to a lot of online or e-commerce learnings, like workshops and conferences. And people are saying that like Instagram will eventually be the place where you just do like one click ordering.

 

Simon: Yeah. It already is, pretty much.

 

Tiffany: Really? I haven’t used it in years so I don’t…

 

Simon: Instagram now has the ability for you to tag your product in the actual post. So if you see a handbag that you want, you just click the post, it’ll come up with the little icon telling you how much it is. And as soon as you click that, it’ll take you through to the site that has the product for you to buy.

 

Tiffany: Got it. But you can’t buy it through Instagram yet?

 

Simon: Not yet.

 

Tiffany: That will be the day, right?

 

Simon: Yeah, absolutely.

 

Tiffany: One click ordering, dangerous.

 

Simon: I have no doubt at all that that is like already in development. Like, it has to be. And as soon as they introduce the product placement and the product tags in the Instagram story as well, it’ll be a big, big, bad buying world out there, which we love.

 

Tiffany: Yeah, me too. Me too. I’m in the Amazon game. So that, to me, is awesome.

 

Simon: I was gonna ask you what your thoughts were on the recent Amazon news. It’s big.

 

Tiffany: It is big. I want to know what Australians are buying. So for those of you who don’t know, amazon.com just banned Australians from buying from amazon.com. I think, one, yes, it’s a tax strategy but also to push more Australians into buying from amazon.com.au. It just launched. I wanna know what Australians are buying on amazon.com. Do you know? Do you guys buy? What do you buy?

 

Simon: Electronics.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. That would be the thing.

 

Jamie: Sunglasses.

 

Tiffany: Sunglasses.

 

Jamie: Yeah. Like just…

 

Tiffany: Like what kind? Just any…

 

Simon: Watches. Watches are… I would say, look anywhere from… Like, you’d have massive…you’re talking about like 60% 70% off the price to got a watch on Amazon than to buy in a store or even online in Australia.

 

Jamie: And so, even paying shipping is worth it.

 

Simon: Massive. Oh, you’re still at least 30% better.

 

Tiffany: For the people listening who don’t know and who also are in Australia or have like connections in Australia, Australia is a…what is it? Their retail industry is 300 billion and most of it is still in retails shop. So there’s like a huge opportunity to grow businesses online right now. But also because Amazon…you can’t buy from amazon.com anymore. And so I think more people will be… Yeah, there’s always a work around.

 

Simon: There is workarounds, yeah. Which we’re interested in because we get a lot of gear from overseas just in regards to the filming that we do because it’s a lot cheaper for us to get shoulder rigs and stabilizers and lenses and all that sort of camera equipment from overseas than it is to get in Australia.

 

Tiffany: So anybody who’s listening, bring some camera equipment to Australia and you’ll probably make a lot of money. One of my… Oh, what’s one of your major pain points right now? Like something that you’re having trouble with or struggling with or…?

 

Simon: We were struggling with monetization. That was a big thing for Messy Veggies. That was a really…like we just couldn’t figure it out. And we spoke to some people and they told us some different things, but it all was at a cost to our audience, like a cost to our clients per se, like the actual cafes, like people that we talked to, and we didn’t want that to be the case. So that was a real pain point. And on the Popsicle side, the biggest pain point for us, I would say was probably recognizing the value that we create and charging accordingly. Yeah.

 

Tiffany: That’s a tough one.

 

Simon: Yeah. Because you can…

 

Jamie: And also there’s a lot of people in the digital marketing space and everybody thinks they’re a website designer now. So competing with that is hard.

 

Simon: Yeah, it’s very true. And there’s a lot of people that just look at price. So I would say at least 70% of the people that we work with have come from a bad experience that need to fix something that happened to them…

 

Tiffany: Interesting.

 

Simon: Yeah. So I would say biggest thing for people out there is to be very comfortable with the people that you’re working with, and don’t think of it in a money sense, think of it as value. Even if you can’t afford to do the whole service up front, talk to whoever you’re trying to deal with about payment plans or… Just because you can’t afford it right now doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get the value. You know, you shouldn’t have to go through multiple people to get where you wanna be. You should take the time to assess what you’re gonna get for the money that you’re paying instead of paying twice.

 

Tiffany: That’s a good recommendation for people who are shopping, like shopping for a digital marketing team or somebody to do their website. The way that I, and you guys probably already know this, but the way that I do things is like if I like working with you or if I like you or if I enjoy you, I know that we’re gonna have like a relationship and then we can like work together. But I don’t…if I like get bad vibes from someone, I just don’t…like I don’t even wanna work with them. Like, I’m all about the vibes.

 

Simon: [inaudible 00:42:00] you want someone on your team.

 

Tiffany: Yeah, exactly. Because it’s an extension of your business. The reason you’re hiring out is because you don’t either have the knowledge to do it yourself or you don’t have the resources. And so, when you hire somebody to do your work, it is an extension of your team. And you wouldn’t just hire anybody to be a part of your business. You’d wanna make sure that they flow with you and that you have like the same goals and like you have the same work ethic, and there’s some… I mean, maybe not all of those one things, but you have your list of things that you look for.

 

Jamie: We also…yeah, we always feel like we’re part of people’s teams and often that makes us go kind of above and beyond the scope, which is not great because we’re not getting paid accordingly then. But yeah, it’s important, like you said, to be picking someone.

 

Simon: Yeah. I like to look at it as, if you could hire someone who you knew would slack off at your job for cheaper than someone who’d give you 100% of their effort all the time and you’d have to pay more for that person, what would you do? Like, would you want a full work week out of someone or would you want a half-assed work week out of someone?

 

Tiffany: I’m probably the worst person to ask because I would like the full work week, but I also believe in working when you wanna work.

 

Simon: Oh, no, I meant like when you’re hiring someone, like as an extension of your team, like you should be viewing that as, you’re hiring someone to join your team.

 

Tiffany: Yes, I agree.

 

Simon: And do I want this person to work for my company or just work at my company?

 

Tiffany: Yeah. For.

 

Jamie: You never want them to half ass, you want them to use their full ass.

 

Tiffany: I love it, Jamie. Yes, we want the full asses.

 

Jamie: [inaudible 00:15:40].

 

Tiffany: I find your ad strategy so interesting, the 24 hours and then stop. Like where did you come up with that?

 

Simon: Trial and error. We ran some campaigns that ran for like three or four days and we just saw a much better… So if I wanted to spend $30 over four days, we wouldn’t see as many shares on a post as if we hit that $30 in 24 hours.

 

Jamie: And that’s not just for every businesses, that’s just for what we’re doing for Messy Veggies.

 

Tiffany: So it’s just important to see how far…I guess to see the curve on what you’re spending, like where it drops off and test it. Like always test it. How do you guys get to know your clients for Popsicle? Because Jamie’s always [crosstalk 00:45:12] check.

 

Simon: Hold the mic higher.

 

Tiffany: Hold the mic higher. Here’s why I’m asking this question. When you know someone better, you’re able to create like a better product. So do you have like a…or how do you get to… I’ve heard that you guys have like…you’re very… I love your boundaries because you know what you’re looking for and you know what you want. And I know that you guys either have like fired clients, which is an important thing to do. I know that you’ve said like, “No, this isn’t a great project for us to work on,” which I think is an important thing to do. Like, you know where you are. You’re like very…you guys are very centered as a business, you know what you’re looking for. So I’m just wondering like how do you get to know…when you choose a client, how do you get to know them so you can produce the best work for them?

 

Simon: Yeah, we always start with the goals, so what the goals are for a business. And usually when you start talking about goals, if people don’t know what they wanna achieve with what they’re doing, they just may need a little bit of coaching through that. But if we’re talking about goals and people have set goals that are very unrealistic or… We can just tell that there’s not an importance placed on what they’re trying to achieve. Maybe it’s a little bit more we’re not really sure, we generally don’t really like working with people… It’s not that we don’t like working with people like that, it’s just…it’s easier when we have clear goals and we know what we’re working towards.

 

Jamie: And also when we’re meeting or, you know, wooing a client, we always start off with either a telephone call or a video conference or face to face meeting if we can. That’s preferable. So we like to get to know people as well.

 

Tiffany: Do you have like a list of questions that you ask them or do you just see how the conversation goes?

 

Jamie: Yeah. Not a generic list, but we do often… Yeah, like Simon said, we’ll start with their goals and find out how they’ve got to where they are now, you know, where they wanna be. And just figure out how we can fit in and help them.

 

Simon: Because sometimes a client will come to us with what they have in mind that they need done. But by us diving into the goals, we can see that maybe that’s not the first step that they should be taking. Maybe there’s other steps that should occur before they get to that area so that it’s better for them.

 

Jamie: We had a lady who contacted me from one of the business networking groups on Facebook who’d seen like a Facebook banner video that we’d done. She’s like, “I really want one of these videos.” And then we found out she hadn’t even got branding, she didn’t have a website. She really had nothing. So we were like, “You probably need to step back a bit and…” yeah. So kind of talked her through the whole process and what she needed to get done and now we’re helping you with all of that.

 

Simon: Yeah. It’s not…yeah. I think, we’re not really here to just do the work for you, we really do get involved in your business. Like we want you to be successful, so we’ll give you the steps that we think that you should be taking, from a digital perspective, to get where you wanna go, and it may not be the reason that you contacted us in the first place. So, yeah.

 

Tiffany: Why did she wanna be…why did she want one of those?

 

Jamie: She just really liked the video.

 

Simon: Which is great that she liked it, but, you know, you need to…if you’re gonna spend money, like you should be spending it responsibly.

 

Tiffany: I love that, coming from the one who is in finance. Yeah, I love that.

 

Jamie: She didn’t even have a Facebook page and it was for a Facebook cover video so…

 

Tiffany: Interesting. That’s really cool.

 

Simon: I get the need for it, but I feel like people should get their ducks in a row before they start spending money needlessly. Return on investment, we’re big believers of that. You need to get it from everything that you do.

 

Tiffany: I love that. That’s a great place to… I know you guys have to run off. I think that’s a great place to bring this to a close. But yeah, thank you guys so much.

 

Simon: Thanks for having us.

 

Jamie: Thank you.

 

Tiffany: There’s so much great information in here. I can’t wait to go through it and listen to it again as if I’m not the person here like talking, but the person who’s going to be listening.

 

Jamie: Do you like listening to your own voice?

 

Tiffany: It was really hard at first. It was so hard, especially when I know that I don’t sound like me. Do you know sometimes you listen to you and you’re like, “That’s not my voice?”

 

Simon: We started… Well, when we first started doing these videos for Messy Veggies, we started doing a Vlog every day. Yeah, about what we did in the day, who we went to go and film and like all the day…and what we ate during the day and all that sort of stuff because…and this is coming back to like…

 

Jamie: Pivoting.

 

Tiffany: Pivoting a little bit, yeah.

 

Simon: Pivoting, big time, and being aware enough of yourself to be okay with that, you know, that you’re not always right. Yeah. So I was watching Casey Nesbitt[SP]. I don’t know if you know…

 

Tiffany: I do, yeah.

 

Simon: And he started V-loging every single day, you know, back in the day and gained a massive following on YouTube because of it. Yeah. And they talk about how much money you make from YouTube and I was like, that’s where we’re gonna make our money. People are gonna watch these videos on YouTube and if we do…

 

Jamie: Nobody watched the videos.

 

Simon: We had some people watch the videos, but we did it for a week. It was a bit longer…

 

Jamie: Maybe two weeks.

 

Simon: Yeah. And the amount of time that I had to put into it each day to actually edit the videos and we were constantly walking around with a camera in our faces, which was like horrible. And listening to my own voice, editing the videos, was a horrible experience for me for the first four days. And then I was just…drowned myself out. But we didn’t see anything happening quickly enough on that front. And I’m sure that if we kept going, it would have done okay. But we saw that YouTube wasn’t a platform for video. Although it’s a video platform, we had a much better engagement on Facebook. So that’s where we focus our attention.

 

Tiffany: Well, if you’d look at the stats for like social media platforms, like Facebook is still the most used like by far, like far surpasses any other platform among all the age groups.

 

Simon: Yeah, which is great. But I mean, yeah, it depends where your target market is but I think a lot of ours are on Facebook still, which is good.

 

Tiffany: I actually think all of…well, except for like very, very young people, I think maybe Snapchat might be, but not…

 

Simon: We don’t use Snapchat.

 

Tiffany: No, no, no. I don’t even use it. I don’t use any of them, which is why I wanna start because after learning so much, my curiosity is like, Ooh, can I do that? Like I wanna see if I can do that. I wanna see if I can get 25,000 followers in a day. That’s not gonna happen, that’s an unrealistic goal. But do you know what I mean? Like I wanna play…I wanna play in the field, you know?

 

Jamie: I’ll follow you.

 

Tiffany: Thank you. Thank you. Jamie.

 

Simon: One of 25,000. Twenty five thousand is not an unrealistic goal, but it depends on what you’re offering as a value.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. I meant like in it overnight may be unrealistic to start. But it would be…like, I’m looking at social media from a different viewpoint. Whereas, three years ago when I decided to stop all social media, I was like, “I don’t wanna waste my time” and now I’m like, “Ooh, that looks like fun field to play on.” I wanna go get…

 

Simon: Yeah, it’s a very fun field.

 

Tiffany: It looks fun to me now.

 

Simon: Yeah. Even with the changes that are coming in terms of privacy, which is big at the moment on Facebook, and around every platform.

 

Jamie: I think you’d love Instagram stories.

 

Tiffany: Really?

 

Jamie: Mmm-mm. They’re fun.

 

Tiffany: I have a couple people who’ve told me like that I would do… I did an Instagram takeover of somebody’s stories one day and they were like, “You’re a natural, like, you should do Instagram stories.” And I was like, I don’t even know how to use this, but it kind of came naturally. It was really fun. I was having so much fun. I didn’t wanna give her her phone back.

 

Simon: Yeah, Instagram… You took her phone.

 

Tiffany: I did. I did. It was her Instagram and I did a takeover and I just…doing stories.

 

Simon: You can add their account to your phone.

 

Tiffany: Oh, really?

 

Simon: Yeah, just for future… I know, I was like you took her phone? What is going on?

 

Tiffany: I took her phone.

 

Simon: But that’s cool.

 

Jamie: She must trust you with all of it, like sneaky nudes and stuff.

 

Tiffany: I guess she does.

 

Jamie: Because everybody has them.

 

Tiffany: One time…this is a funny story. One time I went to go get a photo printed at like, I don’t know, a drug store or somewhere where they do photo printing and… It was in New York, it was in Brooklyn. And at the time I was just…I didn’t live there. I was just visiting. And the guy who was helping me was like, okay, like let’s plug your phone in, let me see… I’m not an electronics person so every time…any time I do anything on electronics, I’m like, “Help, like, help me.” And so, the guy’s like, “All right, let’s do this together.” So he plugged my phone in and like a bunch of nude pictures came up, like fully nude, just right in front. And I looked at him and I was like oops…

 

Jamie: Was he professional?

 

Tiffany: I was like, oops. And then he goes, “It happens all the time.”

 

Jamie: That guy loves his job.

 

Tiffany: Yeah. I bet he was waiting for a hot girl to come in and ask for help. That’s why he was standing next to the photo machine. He’s like…

 

Simon: I’ve got the photo machine today.

 

Tiffany: Exactly.

 

Jamie: Smart guy. That’s funny.

 

Tiffany: All right, guys. Well, it’s always so much fun with you. I’m so happy that you guys came out to Fitzroy to do this interview. So much great information. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

 

Simon: Our pleasure. Thank you.

 

Tiffany: Okay.

 

Jamie: Thank you.

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